Frequently Asked Questions
Acoustical parameters (12)Strange results. Comparisons of measurements and simulations. When to use Global- and Quick- Estimate or Point-/multipoint- and Grid- Response. A: When calculating Speech Transmission Index in Odeon you need to type in a total background noise level, which you type into the room setup. Below video shows how you can use sources in Odeon to find this total background noise level. A: First consider if the reverberation time is the best parameter to use. E.g. DL2 could be a better parameter for a larger room. Simulating reverberation time in a point response calculation in Odeon, corresponds to measuring the reverberation time. Therefore refer to a measuring standard e.g. ISO 3382. Make sure that you use only one Omni-directional source for each calculation job. In large rooms it is important to have sufficient distance between source and receivers, receivers should not be placed in the near field of the source but in the reverberant far field characterizing the room. ISO 3382-2 includes an equation describing the recommended minimum distance between source and receiver: A: The Strength G (as defined in ISO 3382) is the same as the SPL if: A: First a general comment on how the reverberation time is calculated from the impulse response. ODEON follows closely the ISO 3382 standard for measurements, i.e. the T30 parameter is found from the slope of a linear regression line that follows the decay curve from -5 dB to -35 dB. In any room the decay curve is a mix of 1-, 2-, and 3-dimensional modes, and generally they have different decays, i.e. the total resulting decay curve is not a straight line, but can be more or less bent. (The 1-dimensional modes have typically the longer reverberation time, and the 3-dimensional modes have the shorter reverberation time).
A: Make sure source and receiver has mutual distance between them of 0.9 to 1.1 m A: For calculation of STI with a certain Signal/noise ratio, calculate the SPL in your receiver point (read result in Energy parameters in Single Point Response). Then set the background noise to this level +/- your background noise SNR. Then when you calculate the Point response again, the STI is calculated with the desired background noise. Below video shows how you can use sources in Odeon to find this total background noise level and ad the background noise level in an STI calculation. A: The input you can use for simulating sound transmission in Odeon is the sound reduction Index for a certain type of wall. Odeon does not take into account flanking transmission. You can use Odeon for simulating sound pressure level in the receiving room from a well defined source, if the flanking transmission does not play the most important role in your construction, compared to e.g. the room acoustic complexity of the rooms. If you know the influence of the flanking transmission you can manually include it in the sound reduction Index for the wall. It is important to check the reflection density in the receiver room. (You do that from a point response / reflection density). It should be more than 50 if you want good results. If it is less you should increase the number of rays. To make simulations according to measurement standard, remember to use the required amount of sources and receivers. Video describing how to simulate sound transmission. A: The Quick Estimate should be used in connection with a rough distribution of materials. The Global Estimate ca be used for regular rooms, to estimate the reverberation time for selected source positions to give a fast average over the entire volume. Normally you need to simulate the reverberation time for receivers in a room like in a measurement. To simulate reverberation time for a range of receiver positions you should use the job list and calculate point responses to simulate a measurement most realistically. generate the reverberation time for certain positions with Point/Multi point response. If the room is an auditorium with an audience, the grid response receivers should be used. A: This is probably due to low diffusion of surfaces in the room, and 1-dimentional reflection paths. The decay curve will not be linear but will have a steeper curve in the beginning and a less steep curve for the later reflections. With nonlinearity in the decay curve a larger number of reflections is necessary to simulate the reverberation time. also coupled rooms with non linear decay curves should have a large number of rays in the room setup. These are good examples of a volume, where a simple Sabine calculation will not be enough to calculate reverberation time. It can be a help in cases with nonlinear decays to look at the Global Estimate, to analyze how many rays are necessary to define the decay curve (The Global Estimate should a least go down to – 35 dB at all frequencies). A: T20, T10 and several extra parameters will be available from version 11. Reverberation time, (T30) is derived from -5 to -35 dB of the backwards Integrated energy curve according to FDIS 3382-1[6] See below how you can analyze the decay curves from a point response in the Auditorium or Combined edition. The point response shows all curves in the 8 octave bands, to investigate decays curves in a single octave band further press A. By zooming in on the backwards integrated energy curve (E, Integrated) you can analyze different steps of the decay e.g. to see how calculations of reverberation time based on different intervals of the decay curve give different results.
A: Check 3DopenGL and ray tracing if the point-, line- or surface- sources are inside the room and transmitting most of the sound energy into the room. Make also a 3DopenGL check of the receivers. If using a grid map it is possible to exclude receivers outside of the room from being displayed in 3DGrid when the chosen parameter is over or under a selected range. This is set in the Options/Program setup/Grid colours. A: Yes please refer to this page . Calculation method (10)Algorithms and computer-related questions. A: There are two types of volume in Quick estimate estimated based on different methods. A: Odeon and other Room acoustics software are energy based high frequency models. Calculations are in 1/1 octave bands because it gives better results for energy based calculations. A: The calculation principles applied in Odeon is a combination of high frequecy models such as the image source method and ray-tracing, therefore validity of results depends on the frequency range of interest and if signals of interest are dominated by pure tones. A: The reflectogram and the reverberation curve is shown as sound pressure level(dB) as the BRIR is given in pressure (P). P is a more sensitive measure than dB (10*Log10(p^2)), and therefore the BRIR shows small details more clearly. Also BRIR has all frequencies included in the response at the same time. And especially the low frequency contribution that are almost not audible can have a strong visual influence on the BRIR. A: Select the unity HRTF in the auralisation setup – delete the text contents in the Headphone input box (turns read which is ok in this case) finally set the phase approximation to random. This will produce a BRIR where both channels are equal. A: Try to bring the work files down to your computer for comparison. The speed of the calculation can have something to do with the speed of the network. Also if you make very heavy calculations it might take some of the network capacity from others. A: In order to speed up point response calculations, try making a calculation at one of the most critical positions, e.g. where coupled room effects are present. (Auditorium and Combined editions only) Before calculating the point response, set the calculation parameters in the Room Setup. Use the standard Engineering setup as a basis. Set the Impulse Response Length to a value between 2/3 and 1 times the expected Reverberation time. Set the Impulse Response Resolution to a value around 1/1000 – 1/500 of the Impulse Response Length. Calculate the point response in the selected critical position. Check the following in the Single Point Response (Auditorium and Combined editions only)
If the quality of the results above is not satisfactory, the Room Setup should be changed as follows
If the quality of the results above is satisfactory, but you want to minimize the calculation time, try decreasing the number of rays and shortening the Impulse response length. If you are in doubt whether the results are good enough or not, try to run a point response calculation using the Precision setup. In most cases this will create a very high reflection density, but in rare cases like an open air theatre the number of rays may need to be set even higher. Use the calculation results as a reference, i.e. the results obtained with the optimized setup should not deviate significantly from these results. Grid Response calculations A: Odeon 11 which will be released later in 2011 will support multi core CPU's for Multi point and Grid response calculations. The calculation engine has been rewritten to support this and even runs faster on a single core CPU. A: Yes as well as scattering dependent of size of surface and distance between surface and source/receiver. read more in the following paper proceeding: A: Yes much effort has been put into optimizing the calculation speed of ODEON over the years. It is not possible to mention all techniques implemented - here is just a few examples. Odeon uses a dynamic sized 3D-cubenet in which it is stored, which surfaces intersect which cube in the cube-net, therefore Odeon only has to analyse a few of the surfaces in a room for each wall /ray collision instead of all surfaces. From version 8.5 and up, ODEON make use of CPU specific instructions (MMX, SSE, SEE2…) in order carry out multiple calculations in one operation (e.g. multiplying x, y and z of a coordinate with a constant in just one operation instead of three). So indeed parallel processing is performed. Image sources are detected by use of ray-tracing. Rays will only detect image sources which are likely to be valid whereas the traditional image source method requires an enormous amount of image sources to be calculated of which only a few will be valid. Odeon keeps track that a given image source reflection is only added once to the impulse response by use of a tree data structure (image source tree). Therefore there are no cases where an image source is included twice in an impulse response as is the case for the Cone tracing method. Apart from the above, the ‘Late-ray’ method is capable of producing many reflections at a receiver with just a few rays. For a description of the calculation method please see the ODEON manual. Odeon products (4)Upgrade for new versions or difference between Editions. A: Look under Dongle Update, or contact us. A: See this page. A: ODEON file sets including directivity patterns and room models are forward compatible, so it is possible to load old room sets from version 3, 4, 5...., into newer versions. The file set is not backward compatible. If insisting on loading a room into an old version from a new one, it is better to use the "File|Open room and repair" rather than the normal "File|Open room". Also it is recommended to make a backup copy before reloading into other versions. Compatibility between different Editions is not a core facility in ODEON, so a bit of care and effort is required if loading a room created in another Edition. If loading a room in another Edition than the original, make a backup copy in the original Edition and open the room with the "File|Open|Room and repair" option. Industrial Auditorium Combined A: This is described on the product pages along with the difference between different Editions: Industrial, Auditorium and Combined. You can also see the fullupdate history of the different versions. Auralisation (5)Creating auralisation in Odeon, binaural, surround sound etc. A: The 32 bit IEEE float is a professional format. When using this format you avoid introducing quantization noise. When using a PCM format such as the 16 bit integer format, samples are rounded into 16 bit integer data. By rounding the sample data, a difference between the original data (floating point data) and the data saved in the PCM file may (or rather will) occur - it is the difference between these two signals which is the quantization noise. Quantization noise is exactly that: Noise! and as such it is undesired. Further this type of noise may sound quite nasty (include harmonics). When creating multi source auralisation, many auralisation files are mixed together and this will accumulate noise - including the quantization noise in PCM files. If mixing two files with an equal level of noise - then the level of noise is doubled (+3dB), if mixing 10 files then the noise level increases by 10 dB and if mixing 100 files then the noise level increases by 20 dB. By using the float format at least the quantization noise is avoided. A: Windows XP does by default not have a codec installed for this format, however there is a free codec package 'DC-DSP' available on the web. When this was written it could be found at
A: Odeon can produce loudspeaker mapped wave files in the WaveFormatExtensible format. This is fully compatible with Windows media player version /10/11 - thus you may use features in this application such as play lists - be aware the wave files can become quite large (3 times normal stereo waves for a 5.1 Surround Sound set files) A: You describe a loudspeaker configuration and its loudspeaker positions in the Auralisation setup *(e.g. a 5.1 Surround Sound set). If this setup do not fully mach the physical one, then windows will try its best to remap the signals to whatever speaker layout is available to Windows - best results are of cause achieved if the layout entered in Odeon matches the one in windows (defined in the soundcards speaker setup for a sound blaster card) as well as the actual speaker connected to the soundcard. Visualising Acoustics (4)There are several ways to detect errors or visualise the sound in Odeon. A: See below video A: When you are in Define Grid and Set manually scale grid, be sure to tick the box Manual Scaling before you define the interval you want to show in the grid. Choose the parameter you want to change. A: Read More. A: Read More. Import from CAD software (6)How to import from 3D visualisation tooles and CAD software via dxf. files. A: For large models it can take several hours for SketchUp and SU2Odeon to convert the SketchUp model to one you can open in Odeon. SketchUp will look like it has stopped working showing a "Not responding" message but actually it just means leave me alone i have to work for some time now. So have patience when using SU2Odeon for large models. meanwhile you can watch below video:
A: There can be several reasons for this error message. Most likely the course for the error is that the drawing file contains BLOCK and ACIS (3DSOLID, REGION, BODY) entities. In AutoCAD you can check what kind of entities your model contains with the LIST command. The most successful approach is to bypass the .dxf file format and rather use the .3ds format which can be imported by Odeon. To export in the .3ds format from AutoCAD, use the 3DSOUT command. The problem can also be solved in earlier versions of AutoCAD by selecting the relevant drawing entities from inside AutoCAD and applying the EXPLODE command: If you have not modelled in 3D solids try to use the Full re-import command in the Odeon import menu this might give you something you can use as well. A: Odeon A/S will probably not incorporate Industrial Foundation Classes (e.g. .ifc or .ifcxml files) in Odeon in the nearest future. However from programs such as AutoDesk Revit it should be possible to export geometries in the DXF format for use in Odeon. If the IFC support is merely export in the IFC file format without a tight integration of data then there is only little advantage of exporting in IFC compared to DXF. Below is illustrated several ways to handle 3D models for use in Odeon
A: When you have located the surfaces of the object you want to copy in the OdeonEditor, you copy these surfaces together with all the points to a new editor. Save and load the new room in Odeon. Now to get rid of all the extra points it might be necessary to export the model to DXF and then import it to Odeon Again. This is possible from the file menu. When this is done you should use the MTranslate function to insert the object back into the room. And use the NumbOffset function to make sure the new copied objects do not interfere with the existing point and surface numbers.
The following technical note covers these issues: A: Odeon can do even better. We have created a plug-in SU2Odeon for Google Sketchup which converts and saves the geometry directly in Odeons native .par format (Odeon version 10), it is available for download here. The plug-in is without any additional charge and works with the free as well as the pro version of Google Sketchup. For version 9 and earlier of Odeon this solution may work Room modelling (4)How different geometries work in Odeon (and is it possible to calculate volume). A: Yes below video describes how you can combine two extrusions from two different extrusion planes: a plane section and a cross section. Note that when you have combined the two models you cannot go back to the extrusion modeller and draw in the combined model, you must use the Odeon Editor. A: There are basically four ways to create a room models: import from dxf-files/3ds-files, by using Google SketchUp and SU2Odeon, extrusion modelling or parametric modelling in a text editor. Read More. Below is illustrated several ways to handle 3D models for use in Odeon
A: The problem could be that the lines cross ower creating a butterfly surface, like the surface shown below (100 101 102 103)
A: Precise surface equations for each surface in a room model are essential for all computations in a program such as Odeon. The surface equation Ax + By + Cz + D = 0 of a surface plane is based on an insertion point as well as a surface normal. If all corners of each surface would be exactly in one plane and there were no limits to numerical precision of computers, there would not be a problem. Neither is the case, so in Odeon these equations are fitted from all points on the perimeter of the surface weighting their contribution relative to the area of the surface which the two closest edges describe – that is, very close neighboring points has little weight whereas distant neighboring points carry height weight. Consequently Odeon can handle surfaces with perimeter points that derivates quite a bit from the perfect plane. In early versions of Odeon such error would often lead a substantial loss of rays or plane equations which described the geometry poorly – the geometry had to be corrected over and over again. Note that Odeon doesn’t mind which order the perimeter points of a surface is given (clockwise or counterclockwise) both sides of the surface is automatically described in one go. Also note that Odeon allows concave surfaces, surfaces with shapes such as U,O,L,H are allowed to be described by just one surface (sequence of points), no need for surface subdivision. Although these are features are hidden, it does mean that modeling is made much easier by Odeon. Loudspeakers and directivity data (2)How to handle loudspeakers and directivities in Odeon A: If the directivity data of interest is not available in the CLF format, then assist the CLF-group by encouraging the manufacturer to make such data available. Free tools for this purpose can be obtained at www.clfgroup.org. A: In version 9 and later it is possible to use subdirectories for directivity files. This makes it possible to organize directivity patterns in folders e.g. to keep directivities from a specific manufacturer in a folder of its own making it simpler to make use of large libraries of loudspeakers. Simply make subdirectories for each loudspeaker manufacturer in the above mentioned directivity files directory and store the relevant directivity files there. Alternative uses (2)Odeon is used for many acoustic research purposes, which brings up questions like the ones below A: If you are not particularly interested in the result in receiver positions on the other side of the "walls", we cannot recommend to use the sound transmission modelling. Particularly with low sound insulation (R < 10 dB) the method has some drawbacks, please see paper from BNAM 2008. A: If you do text export from the Decay Curve in the Single point response (Ctrl A), Odeon will not only export the normal energy-time histogram (with the resolution given in the ‘Room Setup’, also the intensity given by X,Y,Z composants are given: This text-export include early (specular as well as scattered) and late energy. It is not the individual reflections rather a sampling with a selected time resolution. |
